House of Representatives, Subcommittee on National Parks and Public Lands and the Subcommittee on Water and Power, Committee on Resources, Washington, DC.

The Subcommittees met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m. in room 1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. James V. Hansen [chairman of the Subcommittee on National Parks and Public Lands] and Hon. John Doolittle [chairman of the Subcommittee on Water and Power] presiding.

Mr. HANSEN. This meeting will come to order. Good morning. The Subcommittee on National Parks and Public Lands and the Subcommittee on Water and Power will come to order. John Doolittle of California is the Chairman of the Committee of Water and Power and is sitting to my right. And together we will conduct this hearing. I ask unanimous consent that all of the testimony from Members of Congress and Senate be allowed in the record. Is there objection? Hearing none, so ordered.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES V. HANSEN
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF UTAH

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES V. HANSEN
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF UTAH

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN T. DOOLITTLE
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN T. DOOLITTLE
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you. The gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Kildee.

Mr. KILDEE. Mr. Chairman, for the sake of time, I will not have an opening statement and look forward to listening to the witnesses.

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you. The gentleman from Utah, Mr. Cannon.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHRIS CANNON
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF UTAH

Mr. HANSEN. I caution the gentleman here that everyone's entitled to their viewpoint, and we'll treat everybody with respect. The gentleman from Arizona.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN SHADEGG
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN B. SHADEGG
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

Mr. HANSEN. I thank the gentleman from Arizona. I am always embarrassed to see you folks standing over there. We won't be using this lower tier. You are welcome to come up and sit here, if you would like. And I instruct the clerk to pick up these packets, if they would. If you folks would like to come up and sit down. I would hate to see you stand through this. It is going to be a long hearing. If you plan to stay the entire hearing, you are going to pass out; I hope not from boredom.

Senator Campbell, it is a pleasure to have you, sir. We will take Senator Campbell and then go to Congressman Hefley, Congresswoman Helen Chenowith and Congressman Jim Gibbons in that order.

I ask unanimous consent that the testimony of Senator Campbell be included in the record. Without objection, so ordered.

Senator Campbell, it is always a pleasure to see you. I hope that a lot of you folks realize it wasn't too many years ago that Senator Campbell was sitting here with us in this room. I will turn the time to you, sir.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BEN NIGHTHORSE CAMPBELL
A SENATOR IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF COLORADO

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Senator Campbell. It is always a pleasure to see you. And I appreciate you coming over. We are going to be quite busy this morning. So instead of giving questions to Senator Campbell, you are welcome to join us if you are so inclined. I know you are very busy.

Senator CAMPBELL. I appreciate it, Mr. Chairman. We are on the floor, too. Thank you.

Mr. HANSEN. The gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Hefley.

Senator CAMPBELL. May I also just maybe mention one thing? I have on our side, I have asked Senator Murkowski of the full Committee on Energy if he would hold similar hearings to this, too. So we are not trying to simply lock people out on the Senate side. Those westerners who—we believe debate is healthy. But we want you to know that we have asked Senator Murkowski to hold a hearing.

Mr. HANSEN. I may add to what you just said. If this idea goes forward with some of our Members of Congress, as I have told the Congressman from Arizona, we truly intend to hold additional meetings and hearings, possibly out in the West. The gentleman from—did you want to have him yield to you?

Mr. SHADEGG. If he would yield for just a moment.

Mr. HEFLEY. Surely.

Mr. SHADEGG. Mr. Chairman, I simply want to thank Senator Campbell. I reached out to him this weekend to assure that he would be here. I think his testimony adds greatly to this hearing, and I want to express my personal appreciation for his attendance. I yield back.

Mr. HEFLEY. Mr. Chairman, I believe Mrs. Chenowith was here before I was.

Mr. HANSEN. If I made that mistake, I surely apologize to both of you.

Mrs. CHENOWITH. Mr. Chairman, I would be happy to yield to seniority. Thank you.

Mr. HANSEN. I apologize. I was just going by my sheet here. And we had you down. I want you all to see this, because I don't want to do that purposely.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOEL HEFLEY
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF COLORADO

Mr. HANSEN. As the Senator, my friend from Colorado, said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Mrs. Chenowith.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. HELEN CHENOWITH
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF IDAHO

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you. The gentlelady from the Virgin Islands.

Ms. CHRISTIAN-GREEN. No questions or comments, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you. The gentleman from Nevada, Mr. Gibbons.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JIM GIBBONS
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEVADA

Mr. HANSEN. I thank the gentleman from Nevada. The gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Pickett.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. OWEN B. PICKETT
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF VIRGINIA

Mr. HANSEN. Our first panel is Eluid L. Martinez, Commissioner of Bureau of Reclamation, accompanied by Dennis Galvin of the National Park Service and Mr. Michael Hacskaylo, Acting Administrator, Western Area Power Administration, Department of Energy.

We are grateful for all you folks being here. As has been evident by the opening statements, there is some diversity of thought on this particular issue. But keep in mind, there is on about every issue that comes around here. So that is the way we do our business.

Again, before you start, let me point out that, if you folks standing—we have still got some chairs up here in the lower tier if you would like to use them. You are more than free to do it. We just won't let you talk is all.

OK. We will start with Mr. Martinez. And we are grateful for you being here.

Mr. MARTINEZ. Thank you.

Mr. HANSEN. Let me point out, Mr. Martinez is accompanied by Charles Calhoon, Regional Director of Upper Colorado, Regional Director of the Bureau of Reclamation. Mr. Calhoon, we appreciate you being here.

Mr. Martinez, the floor is yours. Let me ask you, can everybody do it in 5 minutes? That is kind of our rules. And if you have just got a burning desire to go over, I am not going to stop you. But if you watch the little things in front of you there, it is just like a traffic light, you know, when you drive your car. Just do the same thing. Mr. Martinez.

OPENING STATEMENT OF ELUID L. MARTINEZ
COMMISSIONER, BUREAU OF RECLAMATION

PREPARED STATEMENT OF ELUID L. MARTINEZ
COMMISSIONER, BUREAU OF RECLAMATION

Mr. HANSEN. Well, Mr. Martinez, you just set a record in here. And I want you to know how much I appreciate that.

Denis, you've been before us many times. It is always good to see you. Does the National Park Service have a statement?

Mr. GALVIN. No. Our perspectives in the opening statement are incorporated into Mr. Martinez's statement, Mr. Chairman. I am simply here to answer questions if the Subcommittee has them.

Mr. HANSEN. I appreciate that. Mr. Hacskaylo, I turn the time to you, sir.

OPENING STATEMENT OF MICHAEL S. HACSKAYLO
ACTING ADMINISTRATOR, WESTERN AREA POWER ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY

PREPARED STATEMENT OF MICHAEL S. HACSKAYLO
ACTING ADMINISTRATOR, WESTERN AREA POWER ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY

Q & A FROM THE SEATED COMMITEE
SESSION 1

STATEMENT OF HON. BOB STUMP
A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you. We'll excuse this panel. Thank you so much for being here. Our next witnesses are Mr. Adam Werbach, President of the Sierra Club; Mr. Ted Stewart, Executive Director of the Utah Department of Natural Resources; Rita P. Pearson, Director of Arizona Department of Water Resources; Mark Whitlock, Executive Director of FAME. And David Wegner was asked by Mr. Werbach if he could sit with him. I have no objection to that if you want to bring him up.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Mr. Chairman, are you going to ask unanimous consent to bring up Mr. Wegner, because I intend to object.

Mr. HANSEN. Well, I'll tell you what, we'll have him sit there, and we won't call upon him to testify until the third panel. Is that all right?

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Or even the fourth panel.

Mr. HANSEN. Mr. Wegner, if you would like to sit up there, we won't call upon you to testify until the third panel.

You all realize that in this setting there is some strong feelings on both sides of every issue. And they are most of the time in this area. So Mr. Werbach, we're pleased that you could join us today. And we'll turn the time to you for your testimony, sir.

PREPARED STATEMENT OF DAVID BROWER
SIERRA CLUB, EARTH ISLAND INSTITUTE, GLEN CANYON INSTITUTE

OPENING STATEMENT OF ADAM WERBACH
PRESIDENT, SIERRA CLUB

PREPARED STATEMENT OF ADAM WERBACH
PRESIDENT, SIERRA CLUB

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Mr. Werbach.

Mr. VENTO. Mr. Chairman, apparently the EDF study I would ask unanimous consent to be included in the record.

Mr. HANSEN. Without objection, so ordered.

[The information referred to may be found at end of hearing.]

Mr. HANSEN. Ted Stewart, Executive Director, Department of Natural Resources, State of Utah. Mr. Stewart, we'll recognize you, sir.

OPENING STATEMENT OF TED STEWART
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, UTAH DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES

PREPARED STATEMENT OF TED STEWART
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, UTAH DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Mr. Stewart. Rita Pearson. I turn the time to you, madam.

OPENING STATEMENT OF RITA PEARSON
DIRECTOR, ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES

PREPARED STATEMENT OF RITA PEARSON
DIRECTOR, ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you very much. Our next witness is Mark Whitlock. He's accompanied by Shelia Reed, Project Manager, Environment Protection Department of FAME Renaissance. Mr. Whitlock.

OPENING STATEMENT OF MARK WHITLOCK
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FAME RENAISSANCE

PREPARED STATEMENT OF MARK WHITLOCK
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FAME RENAISSANCE

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Mr. Whitlock. I appreciate the testimony of all of our witnesses. We'll now go to the Committee for questions of the witnesses. I would like to hold you to the 5 minutes, if I could. We'll start out with Mr. Doolittle.

Q & A FROM THE SEATED COMMITTEE
SESSION 2

OPENING STATEMENT OF JIM LOCHHEAD
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COLORADO DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES

PREPARED STATEMENT OF JIM LOCHHEAD
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COLORADO DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Mr. Lochhead. We appreciate it. Mr. Bautista, we'll turn the time to you, sir.

OPENING STATEMENT OF MELVIN F. BAUTISTA
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NAVAJO NATION DIVISION OF NATURAL RESOURCES

PREPARED STATEMENT OF MELVIN F. BAUTISTA
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NAVAJO NATION DIVISION OF NATURAL RESOURCES

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Mr. Bautista. Mr. Tarp. We'll turn the time to you. Do you want to pull the mike over there by you, sir.

OPENING STATEMENT OF LARRY E. TARP
CHAIRMAN, FRIENDS OF LAKE POWELL

PREPARED STATEMENT OF LARRY E. TARP
CHAIRMAN, FRIENDS OF LAKE POWELL

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Mr. Tarp. The gentleman from California, Mr. Doolittle, for the questions for this panel.

Q & A FROM THE SEATED COMMITTEE
SESSION 3

Mr. HANSEN. Mr. Elliott, we turn to you, sir.

OPENING STATEMENT OF ROBERT ELLIOTT
AMERICA OUTDOORS AND ARIZONA RAFT ADVENTURES

PREPARED STATEMENT OF ROBERT ELLIOTT
AMERICA OUTDOORS AND ARIZONA RAFT ADVENTURES

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Mr. Elliott. We appreciate your testimony. Mr. Hunter.

OPENING STATEMENT OF JOSEPH HUNTER
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COLORADO RIVER ENERGY DISTRIBUTION ASSOCIATION (CREDA)

PREPARED STATEMENT OF JOSEPH HUNTER
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COLORADO RIVER ENERGY DISTRIBUTION ASSOCIATION (CREDA)

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you, Mr. Hunter. Mr. Wegner, we are happy that you have had the patience to stay with us.

Mr. WEGNER. Finally.

Mr. HANSEN. We will turn the time to you now.

OPENING STATEMENT OF DAVID WEGNER
ECOSYSTEM MANAGEMENT INTERNATIONAL

PREPARED STATEMENT OF DAVID WEGNER
ECOSYSTEM MANAGEMENT INTERNATIONAL

Mr. HANSEN. Thank you. The gentleman from California, Mr. Doolittle.

Q & A FROM THE SEATED COMMITTEE
SESSION 4

Mr. HANSEN. And this hearing is now adjourned.

[Whereupon, at 2:10 p.m., the Subcommittees were adjourned.]